The Story of Rumble: How Cystic Fibrosis was the Impetus for Canada’s First “Nourishing Drink”

Mark: Hey, everyone, my name is Mark Kennedy, and welcome to another Healthynomics Podcast. Before I introduce you to today’s guest, I just wanted to point you to a cool online quiz that we recently developed to test people’s fitness and health IQ against common myths that are out there. To find the quiz just to the Healthynomics Homepage and you’ll see an orange button in the middle with a link to the quiz. The quiz is free and it’ll take you no longer than a couple of minutes to complete. And today I think only two people have scored a perfect ten out of ten, so let’s see how you do. Anyway, on to today’s guest. It is Paul Underhill. Paul is the founder of Groove Nutrition, which is a maker of a new nutritional beverage called Rumble. Paul, thanks for joining us today.

Paul: Thank you, Mark, and I’m glad to do so.

Mark: Perfect, so I guess off the bat, do you mind just telling us, everyone a bit about yourself. I know you’ve got quite an inspirational story and a bit of background on how Rumble came to be, as well.

Paul: Sure, absolutely. Thanks, Mark. Basically, I was born with Cystic fibrosis, which is a genetic lung disorder, primarily. And I had a pretty active childhood. I was into high school sports, but as I got older, of course, CF took its toll. And part of dealing with CF is having a really high metabolism; you burn a lot of calories. And you have a need for premium nutrition. You’ve got to stay away from things that cause inflammation, and as a result I had a lot of Ensure, and Boost just trying to keep the calories going, you know, the replacement-type drinks. Eventually I got a little healthier and turned to Sequoia Natural Products, the [Vega] products–great things, but they weren’t personally fluid to my palette, and I was looking for something that was ready to drink and packed a punch for nutrition. So I went to the health food store and asked for it, and basically discovered that they didn’t have it. You know, they simple had nothing like it. And the guy said, look, you wouldn’t believe how many times people have asked for that, and I’ve got nothing to give them.So that was the impetus for starting to experiment in my kitchen. I’d already made some of these for a while, and I thought, well, what about making some things that will work for not just me, but for everybody who’s looking for a ready-to-drink beverage that will pack in all of your essential nutrients and be sort of completely balanced.That was the beginning, the genesis of what became Rumble. And, yeah, I basically started the company back in 2008 with a friend of mine, who has some food product experience. And then after that we took on Dr. Kim McQueen, a naturopath to help me with refining the formula. And James McQueen, he’s the fourth on our team and has been a real business development and key fellow for that.

Mark: Perfect, so we’ll dive into it a bit more on the ingredients and nutritional makeup in a second, but as far as the drink goes, again, you were looking for something that was basically a meal replacement? I know there’s a lot of sort of energy drinks, and power bars, etc., but maybe you could sort of explain why those didn’t necessarily fit the bill for you?

Paul: Sure, it’s a great question. So, I mean, at the time I had used a lot of products from different companies. The bars have a bit of the stuff. But I was really looking for something that could be taken quickly. So, that was why I turned to the beverages. And I’ve used the energy drinks. I know they’re not the greatest thing for you, but I’ve turned to them in times of need. And I’ve also, like you say, regular smoothies almost every single day of my life and would make them myself in the blender.

But I was looking for something basically emulated what I made in the blender, but ready to drink. And there were a lot of challenges. I can talk more about that, but I mean, close to me personally, and the beverage process of making that really . . . yeah, I was in a state where I needed to have just the purest of ingredients, and it needed to be really anti inflammatory. There’s nothing on the market that I could find anywhere that had the amount of Omega-3s I was looking for.

Mark: Was something specific to CF that you needed to for that anti inflammatory properties?

Paul: A good question, Mark, but no, not specific to CF. In fact, anybody athletic people in general want to quell inflammation after a workout, or on a ride. And people in the general population will want to increase their intake of Omega3’s for many of the same reasons, because we do have a tendency to have pro inflammatory foods in our diet. We’ve got to compensate where we can with foods that are [inaudible 04:52]. So we all know, I think, fish oil in a great thing. It comes from salmon if you have it available. But if you don’t have a lot of fish in your diet a great source and plant based Omega-3’s is flax-seed oil. So that’s what, I guess the key to differentiator or anything in Rumble is in fact you’ve got over 3,000 milligrams of Omega-3s. That helps me with CF, because that was a key component of anti-inflammatory. But it also helps athletes and regular people who are just looking for that new diet.

Mark: Yeah, I mean, I’ve tried both flavors of Rumble and I love them both. I think one thing that stood out for me, actually, was I noticed on the label, I looked at all the ingredients, and the Omega-3s stood out because I don’t recall looking at a bunch of different labels for products that I’ve tried in the past. A drink like that having Omega-3’s  in it, so that was to me a bonus.

Paul: Yeah, and that’s just the thing. You may see it from time to time creeping into the occasional bar to other snacks, and [inaudible 05:54] and they do to their credit. Some products have 150, or even up to 300 mil. I’ve seen. But we literally have more than ten times that, with over 3,000. And that in combination with powerful protein–really one of the highest biological value proteins in sustained release. So that was part of it. I was looking for it, and realized many other people were too. And then to have that in the optimal ratio to the carbohydrates, [through advanced] absorption and satiation, with fiber, too. So that’s the other thing that we have. We have 8 grams of fiber per serving. It’s a bit of a tall order, and it was a lot of work and gears R&D to get that to something that tasted the way you describe it.

Mark: Yeah, maybe you could take us through that. I mean, there’s a whole [lock boat] of stuff and I notice, there’s kale, I believe walnut oil, cherry extract, and a bunch of different things. You could sort of walk us through how you fit everything in there, and at the same time make it taste good.

Paul: That’s a great question. I mean, we’re going back over five years when it started, and it could be a perfect audit. When I first started it in the kitchen, some of those first experiments were just horrid. They were healthy in there, but they just tasted disturbing.

Mark: Yeah, sort of plug your nose and swallow it down.

Paul: Exactly, but no, they got better, progressively better, and relatively quickly. And part of that just comes from using real ingredients, like the ones you mentioned, like we have organic maple syrup and agave for sweetener. And then, I should mention, too, you mentioned walnut oil. We have walnut oil in the vanilla, which I think is one of the greatest things. It adds a hint of walnut to the maple vanilla that, for me anyway, provides . . . it’s my favorite flavor. So it’s a nice combination. But for those with nut allergies, the Dutch cocoa is allergen free, without any walnut oil.

So, yeah, the combination of ingredients comes about just from looking, trying to make the nutritional objectives that Dr. McQueen and I sort of set for the drink in terms of the ratios, having a two-to-one ratio of Omega-3 to Omega-6. Adding sufficient protein; we wanted to have 20 grams of protein, and that’s the reason we selected the particular mix of proteins that we did, that they provide enough. But also having whey protein isolate to give you some immediate absorption and then having the other two, to provide a sustained, really, and still have a high [inaudible 08:28] value.

So, yeah, in terms of the veggies, the kale and the organic spinach, and so forth, those are in there to provide antioxidants. We anticipate rolling out into the states next year, or actually this year, and we looked at a couple of potential competitors down there that have a good antioxidant blend. We wanted to sort of see if we could better that and use the naturals. And we have those fruit and veggie extracts in addition to green tea extract, as well.

Mark: Yeah, I noticed that as well. Just a ton of stuff there. So, you sort of explained how you use, or what you use Rumble for–what other purposes, I mean. So I’m going through all my day, when am I going to grab a drink of Rumble? Is it at the time that I feel that hungry, or that time I get that sugar craving, and need something. Or is it before a workout; or perhaps all of those things. Maybe you could go through that?

Paul: Yeah, I don’t want to sound like a snake oil salesman but honestly, Mark, I think the answer is all of those things. What I use it for personally is, and I do this today, just before I go for a ride I had half of a Rumble. And then as soon as I get back I’m using it kind of for the recovery. But that’s me. For most people, I think, and that’s because mostly because we’re busy, but we don’t want to compromise on our nutrition. It can be when you’re getting set to go to a business meeting, and you think, wow, I’ve only got half an hour here. And you just take it in that context. It could be for soccer moms on their way to pick up the kids. It can be for the student in-between classes. It’s anybody who wants to have premium nutrition in a quick period of time.

Mark: Yeah, I know it’s great. I know for me, it’s always, when I’m at work it’s always that afternoon, around 3:00, 3:30. You’re sort of getting a bit tired from the day. You start getting maybe a sugar craving, or something, and now’s the time I want to reach for something, and I feel like something like this would be perfect. It’ll keep me going until I get home for dinner, or workout, or whatever. But at the same time, I’m getting quality ingredients, and I’m not pounding my body with sugar.

Paul: Exactly, the reason we took years of R&D, the whole point of that was to arrive at something that tasted fantastic. And we were just like elated when we finally got the final version of it. And that’s the whole point. It has to satisfy that sort of craving we have for something that tastes good.  It’s funny. There are lots of the things out there that are healthy, but very few that are actually quite healthy and taste as good.

Mark: Exactly.

Paul: So, that’s, the key is I have weaknesses just as anyone else for things that taste good. And they’re not always the healthiest. So, we feel really good about Rumble. It does, to me, fit into that mid-afternoon snack time, as well. Certainly a lot of people who want to have one and then might have a squash game after work, before dinner, it’s great to have, and better than the bar or any other sort of solid food in a sense that you’ll digest it quicker, you have it to work out and do whatever you need to do.

Mark: Perfect.

Paul: Yeah.

Mark: So, bringing it to the next question, probably a lot of people, and probably me included, probably don’t appreciate the time and effort that goes into bringing a nutritional food or beverage to market. And I’m assuming you had to go through some sort of approval process to be able to sell this as a nutritional beverage. So, I’m wondering if you could just give us a quick “Cole’s Notes” on how that worked.

Paul: Yeah, well that was a real eye opener. My background is like, psychology, and intellectual  property law, and I’m not much of an entrepreneur, and didn’t know much about the food industry. Thankfully, I did sit up with my friend, Steve, who has more knowledge. But going back to the beginning, I was ignorant enough to actually, when I heard the fellow say, oh, we’d love to have some of that, I looked at him and said, well, that’s great. I hope to be back in here in three or four months with a product for you. And that was literally four to five years ago.

Mark: Yeah.

Paul: And I had no idea what was involved, and it was a real learning process, for me at first alone, and then with the team as we got together. But basically, we were told early on when we started mixing it; we went to the food scientists. We went from our kitchen to working with food scientists for close to a year, and then to finally to production, to do what we needed to do. And I guess the greatest challenge was, and there are two parts to that. There’s the challenge of making the drink, and then there’s the approval process, the regulatory side of things.

And of the two, I mean, gosh, it’s hard to say which is harder. I think the making of the drink was probably harder, because we were originally told we couldn’t do what we were trying to do, to basically combine the amount of flax-seed oil and healthy oils with the proteins and carbs, and have that emulsified in a way that was going to be drinkable, and all natural, without any kind of you know chemical mojo or artificial flavors, whatever. We were told that’s just a really a tall order. And I can say, for both myself and of our team, we don’t take no for an answer, and we sort of persevered and pushed and when we finally got the bottle we wanted to use, and then found nobody in Canada could what we needed to do with that, and protect the ingredients in the process of putting it together. We eventually found a partner in the States that could do that.

So, we’d hoped to be local as possible to Vancouver, but then realized within the day when we found our partner, like wow, they can make the drink–the healthiest and most environmentally friendly way possible. They’re zero landfill producers, so that does make up for it. And so we pay for more shipping, but make a similar benefit by having a more premium beverage.

Mark: And I took special note, too, of the bottle. It is aluminum bottle?

Paul: Yeah, it’s aluminum, and it’s basically reusable, because people as soon as they finish using it they can fill it up with water, or use it for whatever else they like. It’s recyclable, being aluminum, of course. And people found it easy to re-purpose it, so we’ve had a couple of people make camp stoves out of them. So, it’s got, yeah, a lot of arms, there. And basically we look at that as being the most environmentally friendly and that’s sort of human health and safety combined. So we’re pretty stoked with that.

And I guess the reseal able nature of it is probably the biggest. It’s reseal able with the wide mouth lid, reusable, and recyclable. And then the fourth, re-purposeable with the camp stoves, etc.

Mark: Exactly. Reading on your website it seems like there’s a pretty big environmental ethical component to Rumble, which is great.

Paul: Absolutely. Yeah. You did ask of the regulatory side, I’ll get back to that, but on the sort of what we’re trying to do with sort of being progressive when it comes to the company, is both, I mean, we think it’s, the price of doing business these days is you’ve got to look after the environment and be as sustainable as possible.

But we’re also supporting an initiative called, One Percent for Hunger. By that we are donating 1% of our total sales to charities to eliminate hunger. We’re pretty stoked about that.

But getting back to sort of the process you asked me about, basically when we began we were looking at being what they call a Canada Natural Health Product, and we had to learn. We worked with consultants, we worked closely with them. And as we were working on a process, certain sit-and-drink lifeguards got selected by the food director of Health Canada to make that transition from natural health products to regular food. Because, let’s face it; that’s how we use them. They’re not really used as supplements, per se. And fortunately, that AFL worked really well [inaudible 16:46]. Regular approval for the way that worked all came together in October or November, and we launched in November.

So we are indeed, a regular food. It took a good couple of years to work our way through the red tape that we have here, and we spent a lot of money doing that, but it was actually quite [inaudible 17:07] experience. You make good appreciation of what we’ve got going on in Canada, even if it’s difficult for business owners. There are looking out for the best of the consumer, so . . .

Mark: Yeah, that’s what it’s there for, unfortunately the process takes a long time, but in the end . . .

Paul: It really does take a long time, but I think at the end of the day there’s one small thing on that, and it’s that when we began, way back in the early stages, we were thinking maybe we’ll be a meal replacement. Well it turns out the mandated ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3 fatty acids is what we consider very unhealthy. It’s actually a 4-1 ratio that you’ll have to get, and so any drink that wants to be a “meal replacement” in Canada has to have that what we call unhealthy ratio. And that’s because the standard was set twenty years ago when there was less of an understanding of those  intricacies. . .

Mark: So that’s a 4-1 ratio, and what’s the ratio within Rumble?

Paul: Well, in that same way it would be 1-2, meaning that the meal replacement have a 4-1 ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3, and we have a 2-1 ratio of Omega-3 to Omega-6. We have double the amount of Omega-3s to Omega-6. A regular meal replacement is mandated to have actually four times Omega-6, which you know to be honest, is closer to what the average person eats. But that’s not, and that’s where that came from, is they were looking, thinking, oh, well, if people eat that way, maybe that’s …

Mark: Yeah, this is healthy then.

Paul: Rather than starting with the, well, what’s optimal health, and what if people traditionally ate looking back longer. So that takes a long time for relations to catch up to science, basically. And we’re lucky in that we don’t have to . . . we’re not a meal replacement. We’re not a natural health product. We are a regular beverage, and even though we’ve packed all those nutrients in there we’re lucky to be in that category for that reason.

Mark: Well, that’s great. Thanks for breaking that down for us.

Paul: Yeah, a bit complicated, and maybe a little more detail than what you’re looking for, but …

Mark: No, it’s great to learn, I mean. It’s a learning process, and I think everyone should appreciate sort of the food and drinks that they are consuming.

Paul: For sure.

Mark: And the details that goes behind them.

Paul: Yeah.

Mark: So what’s next for Groove Nutrition and Rumble? Are you looking at other flavors? I know you mentioned you’re considering getting the product offered in the U.S., which would be big for sure.

Paul: Yeah, when we looked it was pretty straightforward, because we already have FDA approval. Basically, we get a label and find a distributor. And I also have sufficient funding to support the required marketing. So that’ll be something that we aim to do in the fall. We plan to go to a trade show. But in the meantime, yeah, we’re just going to roll out. We just started in Canada, and part of that is making sure we get enough market penetration in those channels, across Canada, and make it available for people who are looking for it.

Mark: Yep, and so where can people buy Rumble currently, and where can we learn more about it. I know you’ve got a website, so perhaps you could just give us the website.

Paul: Yeah, sure. Well, that’s the first thing . . . we do have most of the locations where it’s available on the website through the little map that comes up. If you press on the R. So, I’ll give you the website is www.drinkrumble.com, and from there you can get the map. But the key thing we’ve learned and probably the biggest most important learning we’ve had so far, people say, oh, when do you plan to be in this store? When do you plan to be in that store?

Well, the way it works is it’s as simple as this. When customers ask for it, of the managers of those stores they shop at, those managers simply make a request to the distributor and the next thing you know that store carries Rumble. But they may not know about us, and in fact, it’s hard to [educate] all the store accordingly. So really, they’re responsive to the management, so they can ask for it, and it’s there. And we now have the greatest distribution is available for Ontario, anywhere in this area, a natural health or grocery store. They can request it and it’ll be brought in and that’s the same with the west now, we have a distribution for B.C. and Alberta, and Manitoba, and I think Saskatchewan, as well, although it may be a bit pricier to get it to Saskatchewan. But basically, we were set up for the West and through Ontario.

Mark: Well, that’s great. I know a lot of Canadians will probably be getting this post and listening in, so I’ll try to spread the word, as well. As I said, I’ve tried both flavors, and I’m a big fan.

Paul: Well, thank you. We do have one outlet in Montreal, Quebec and we’ve had really positive response from the people of Quebec. So we’re hoping we can expand it to that market, as well, and we’ll see how soon that happens. But now, it’s in just one or two stores.

Mark: Well, that’s great.

Paul: Yeah.

Mark: Listen, Paul, I won’t take any more of your time, but thanks very much. It was very informative, and I hope everyone enjoys it.

Paul: Yeah, thanks very much. It was great talking with you.

Mark: Okay, you too. Thanks a lot, Paul. Bye.

Paul: Bye.